Board Thread:General Wiki Discussion/@comment-24881871-20141004223618/@comment-24881871-20141005041416

ImGonnaBeThatGuy wrote:

I think it's great that a bunch of 14-year-olds wants to say faggot and nigger and tranny. Like, it's really cool that you guys are so beyond racism and persecution that you can use them and it's not offensive.

You could also just not use them.

The argument that they're not being used offensively it stupid, because they're still being used immaturely. You people just want to use nigger, why? Because it's the internet and that's something you do on the internet? What actual reason is there to say nigger? Or call someone a faggot? Or any other slur? Irony? Edginess? Because it's funny?

Why do we allow stories with distasteful content, but don't allow users to use slurs in chat? For the same reason characters in movies are allowed to shoot each other, but you can't do it in real life without getting in trouble. In a story, the content has a point, it's meant to contribute to the plot, it's meant to define character, to be thrilling or scary, add suspense or make us uncomfortable. In chat, it's without good purpose. We delete stories that have no purpose.

The idea that using them offensively would still be bannable is stupid. "You're such a faggot" is how the word gets used 95% of the time. Sometimes someone might call themselves a faggot, but what else is there? "This sandwich I'm eating is such a faggot"? "You stupid nigger" is offensive? Why? Because of the "stupid"?

Again, what the fuck is the point? Why do you need to use the words? It's easier, shorter is ridiculous. Likferd, you give the example of using "a person who changes gender" to replace "tranny." Or, you know, you could use transsexual.

Well, why do we allow swearing, but not slurs. Because of history. "Fuck" might offend someone, but "fuck" was never specifically used in the persecution of any group of people.

Well, words are only offensive if you're offended by them. I get it. I do. I've written offensive things, I've written offensive things that maybe should have offended me personally given what I've experience in life. The thing is, not everyone has the same attitude. Remember how some people used to feel that chat was an unwelcoming and hostile place? The resurrected chat can't continue on that road. If it does, it's getting shut down. Unbanning slurs aren't going to help people feel more welcome.

The BIGGEST stupid idea in this whole thread is that because other kind of racism slip through the cracks that means all of it should be allowed. We get this argument on the main site all the time: "Why did you delete my story? There are other, worse stories on here."

Guess what? Just because one thing isn't caught doesn't mean a similar thing should be ignored. Our moderators should be stopping people from making parody accounts mocking races. I have.

TL,DR: There's no good reason for anyone in chat to use slurs other than that they want to. Wanting to is not good enough.

You've made a lot of good points here. I have identified four major groupings and an additional comment that carries such weight that I cannot ignore it. I've addressed each in chronological order. Beside each response I've denoted whether I have conceded entirely, in part, or if I have maintained my stance.

You argue that lifting the ban on slurs wouldn't lead to any substantial improvement, but would instead cause problems within the chat. To support this, you draw attention to chat users' tendency to use these words inappropriately. However, it must be considered that the issue of slurs is in itself one of the chief sources of chat drama. It can be argued that if slurs were no longer prohibited, one of the most vexing issues—whether to ban in a certain context—would be greatly relieved. For this reason, I partially concede this point.

You reason that swearing is allowed because slurs and swearing are fundamentally different; one was created with the intention of discriminating against a group of people. It is worth considering that not all slurs began this way. "Niger" was originally a Latin word for the word "black." Centuries later the Spanish word negro was derived from it, and was eventually adopted by Americans and given a new form, albeit one that quickly became one of the most offensive words in the English language. The evolution of this term from innocent to offensive can be seen in curse words as well, though in recent years people have become more accepting of them. I partially concede this point.

I discussed the irrational implications of banning slurs, which you dissected and demonstrated to be false. I concede this point.

I argue that standalone words should not be offensive to people who use a site devoted to stories containing graphic, unnerving content. However, you replied that these stories serve a purpose, while slurs do not. In essence, I see a discrepancy, whereas you see using slurs as unwelcoming behavior that could turn people away. I partially concede this point, as it ultimately boils down to a matter of personal opinion on what we interpret as offensive.

This last point is a volatile one that must be handled carefully. In the absence of an explanation of what was meant, you understandably misinterpreted the purpose of my Jew analogy. Unfortunately, this misapprehension of my message has been adopted by both Nick (WhyAmIReadingThis) and Fatal. Understand this: in no way am I advocating that it is acceptable to use slurs on the basis that certain wrongdoings go unpunished.

The point was that we ought to put our money where our mouths are, but I decided not to include this phrase in the original post because it would come off as unprofessional. To expound on this, my intention was that the wiki needs to cease all partisanship and extend its policies to all areas of the site, not just those we choose. I excluded slurs from this category because their offensive nature is contingent on how they are used. Since your comment was a complete misrepresentation—albeit a justifiable one—of what I posited, I must maintain what I said.

Now that I have addressed each part of your post, we can proceed. It is clear that your views on slurs are fundamentally different than my own, but can it be agreed on that we should be more lenient on their usage? As I mentioned in the second paragraph of this post, it is one of the major sources of discord in the chat. I'm not the only one who thinks this; Sloshed suggested it in his most recent post, and Callie was not opposed to the idea earlier in the thread.