Board Thread:General Wiki Discussion/@comment-36052213-20180802015552/@comment-5733573-20180803025916

ChaoZStrider wrote: The last I am going to talk on the matter of this supposed discrimination until we have the full context for what happened regarding it with evidence to support it.

JDeschene, I disagree. Context matters. We do not have the full context, we can not make a full assessment of the situation. Calling Helel transphobic or discriminatory without the full context is just irresponsible. I'd say you should be ashamed of doing so but your opinion of how much context matters is clearly different from mine so that wouldn't amount to anything. I hope you come to realize the importance of context in the future.

Llanunall, I am of the opinion things like "the salt mines" and "wall of hate" shouldn't exist on the wiki in the first place. Lokintas and Helel both should have kept this matter off wiki and came to a conclusion off wiki. By reaching out and continuing the discussion on the wiki while both people were possibly still upset and tender about the situation Lokintas allowed it to devolve further. Instead Lokintas should have given Helel his space and then tried to PM Helel at a later time for the two of them to discuss things civilly.

"The salt mines" and "walls of hate" go entirely against the way admins are supposed to act and set a bad tone for when it comes to contacting them. I've made that opinion clear in the past. I have never called Helel transphobic. I think there's evidence that he made a bad and discriminatory decision. Does that make him a bad person? No, not necessarily. Good people can make discriminatory and hurtful mistakes. I have only ever been talking about Helel's behavior throughout my responses to this thread, not who he is as a person. I don't want to label Helel in a negative way. I'm capable of seeing a separation between the person and the behavior.

Nor have I suggested that one kind of discrimination is worse than another. If it turns out that both Lokintas and Helel have discriminated against each other, that should be dealt with accordingly. If, somehow, it turns out that Lokintas was the sole discriminator, that should be dealth with accordingly. The danger of placing too much importance on context is that it sends the message that discrimination is totally acceptable under certain circumstances, and I'm not okay with that, personally.

I also want to make clear, in case I haven't, that I don't consider anything Helel is accused of to be unforgivable. Also, knowing he's been spoken to and, as far as you've said, plans to change his approach to others on the wiki has inspired me to change my vote. I hope this message serves to clarify my position.