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Haunted Mansion > The Grand Hall (Discussion) > Disquieting Metamorphasis (Rumors) > [MOVED] HM Conspiracies?
cacklemeyer (17 Mar 2016 16:49):
I'm sure these kind of things have been floating around the web for awhile, but I found a couple of weird stories once about real ghosts and secret tunnels underneath the Disneyland and WDW mansions. There's one written by a guy who was at DL on a grad night in the 80s, and one by a CM working at Magic Kingdom. I think they got reposted and taken down a few times, because now I can't seem to find them anywhere. Does anyone happen to know where they might be, and if so, how valid any of them are?
Freddie The Bat (17 Mar 2016 17:11):
cacklemeyer (17 Mar 2016 17:40):
Thanks Freddie. That was driving me crazy! I guess they finally found their way onto some archives, the first story's been circulating for a few years at least.
MadamLamprey (17 Mar 2016 18:07):
OMG I remember these stories! Finally someone found them their pretty good but are they real? 'cause normally people write stories about the ghosts and the mansion like I do, not about it in real life.
YoungMasterGracey (17 Mar 2016 18:32):
Freddie's right when he says they're creepypastas. Kudos to whoever wrote them though, some of the details are scary accurate, right down to the events being timed around real deaths in the parks. It's pretty morbid.
cacklemeyer (17 Mar 2016 18:58):
True, it's part of why I asked in the first place. I know some of it can't be verified, but some of it is pretty spot-on. Just enough to tickle my brain, make me wonder about it. If anything I figured it would be fun to discuss the mystery parts, you know?
Freddie The Bat (17 Mar 2016 19:28):
Personally it lost me when the author mentioned utilidors under Disneyland in the first story. I mean... come on. XD
YoungMasterGracey (17 Mar 2016 19:43):
Honestly it's not that weird to make that mistake though, especially if the writer is saying this was something he/she thought about as a kid in the 80s. There was probably false information spread around by kids who didn't know all the facts. Also the woman in the other story pointed that out too.
The point where you realize these stories are fake is when the two named characters in them are Mike and Karen, but again, points for a fun little wink and nod from the author.
MadamLamprey (17 Mar 2016 21:00):
Wait theres also two different versions of the grad night story because Mike comes back and takes the car and leaves in the one I read before but in the one that was linked its different! Mike disappeared for good! Why is it different??
YoungMasterGracey (17 Mar 2016 23:59):
Such is the nature of the internet, Lamprey. Must have gotten changed or edited somewhere along the way if it was posted anonymously in the first place. Who knows.
MadamLamprey (18 Mar 2016 11:17):
If I were the writer I wouldnt write anything anonymously though I'd want people to know I wrote it. That way if anyone made a change I could bring out the original version and show them wrong!
Ravenswood (18 Mar 2016 16:22):
Moved this thread to the Rumors section, it seems more fitting there with a title like "HM Conspiracies?" Let's try not to go into NoSleep territory here, if you please.
MadamLamprey (18 Mar 2016 16:54):
cacklemeyer (18 Mar 2016 17:03):
Lamprey, try Googling it.
I guess my point with this thread is that it seems like both stories are alluding to some sort of grand conspiracy, which is really intriguing to me. Whatever is happening under the mansions has to do with when people actually die in the parks. I know that the "Man with the Cane" really has been sighted by a few CMs working at Florida's mansion, or at least that's the claim. I don't know if anyone has ever described a roaming Hatbox Ghost at Disneyland, but the popular urban legend for that mansion is the one about the crying boy. I'm surprised that never came up!
Anyway, fake or not I want to discuss theories with y'all!
Freddie The Bat (18 Mar 2016 18:10):
Alright cackles. I'll bite. XD
Took another read through both of them. Whenever someone dies in the parks, these rooms and halls kind of appear beneath the mansions, and are accessed in weird ways. I guess they're supposed to be like extra-dimensional spaces or something. Some of doors have little out-of-place touches to them that could also be matched to how each person died - chronologically speaking, of course. Definitely get that part of it.
What isn't really delved into is why people dying in the parks causes this to happen, or why the Hatbox Ghost and the man with the cane are there when it happens. That all seems random to me. Are they guards? Prisoners? Soul-collectors? No solid answer, which I guess is kind of the point since they're creepypasta and some of it has to be left unknown.
YoungMasterGracey (18 Mar 2016 21:06):
Maybe each mansion has its own guardian ghost, who appears when something like this happens. Could be they're released for a bit when someone dies nearby, perhaps to catch the lost soul and stick them in the prop rooms. WHY that would happen I have no clue!
cacklemeyer (18 Mar 2016 22:48):
How did you line this up, Freddie? Any chance we can see a list of Disney park deaths? (Yikes. That's a morbid request...)
Freddie The Bat (19 Mar 2016 15:32):
Ask and ye shall receive! I put together a quick list here of all deaths associated with Disneyland up to 1983:
- 1964 - Teenage boy stands up on Matterhorn, falls out, dies three days later
- 1966 - Teenage boy crushed under Monorail after trying to sneak in on the track
- 1967 - Teenage boy crushed to death under Peoplemover car while jumping between cars
- 1973 - Teenage boy drowns in Rivers of America (sensing a pattern here?)
- 1974 - Female CM crushed between walls in America Sings.
- 1979 - Woman falls into coma after riding Space Mountain, dies a week later
- 1980 - Teenage boy crushed to death under Peoplemover car while jumping between cars (AGAIN!)
- 1981 - Teenage boy fatally stabbed in Tomorrowland during fight.
- 1983 - Teenage boy drown in Rivers of America (the Grad Night death)
And here's WDW until 2004:
- 1977 - Child drowns in Cinderella's Castle moat
- 1980 - Young girl becomes ill riding Space Mountain, dies later
- 1982 - Toddler falls from tram in parking lot
- 1982 - Toddler hit by falling menu board
- 1984 - Family of three killed when small plane crashes in EPCOT parking lot
- 1986 - Man and woman drown after car crashed into retention pond, EPCOT parking lot
- 1992 - Man commits suicide with a shotgun in EPCOT
- 1995 - Girl with heart condition loses consciousness on Body Wars, dies later
- 1999 - Male custodian killed in fall from Skyway gondola
- 2000 - Man killed when hit by Splash Mountain log trying to exit
- 2004 - Male CM run over by parade float (the Man with the Cane death)
And that's just in close proximity to the parks! Don't even get me started on the deaths that have happened in other parts of the resort or the water parks. You all know about River Country...
Main thing is that there's way more deaths at DL and WDW listed here than there are doors under either mansion, so that feels like a definite debunk there. Should have been way more doors.
cacklemeyer (19 Mar 2016 20:36):
I'm almost sorry I asked, haha. That's messed up.
YoungMasterGracey (19 Mar 2016 20:39):
I'm not so sure. Do you know about Disney's policy of never declaring people dead in the parks? Its a weird thing they do whenever they can feasibly do it. Even if someone is killed instantly, Disney always tries to say that the victim did not really expire until they were beyond the park. You can imagine a lot of people passed "in transit" to a hospital, at least on paper.
Freddie The Bat (19 Mar 2016 20:48):
Well that complicates things. I didn't know about that. There's some obvious cases where someone didn't die until later, but for others now it's even harder to tell.
cacklemeyer (20 Mar 2016 09:02):
Thats bonkers! Disney cares about their image that far! Can't spoil anything for the guests, right?
So keeping that in mind, the Grad Night prop room numbers still make sense. WDW is still a stretch but its a lot more feasible. Maybe we're missing a pattern. What circumstances cause the doors to appear and what factors add another room? And what are they storing down there?
MadamLamprey (20 Mar 2016 19:14):
Ok I see whats happening now! This makes me inspired to keep writing my Phantom manor story even tho its not about the ride its more about how Melanie and Constance meet each other and fight over grooms. Hey speaking of could if you guys are talking about this could you please maybe go and read what I have so far in the Library board? Its called Trials Of Dead Brides 2.
ohyestheydo (22 Mar 2016 10:00):
Ha. The only pattern I see in these stories is how much they get wrong. How you can take any of this remotely seriously despite the glaring flaws is beyond me, especially the second one. Any CM worth their salt would know what is accurate. I call foul.
cacklemeyer (22 Mar 2016 23:20):
Care to elaborate, ohyes? I'm honestly interested in what you have to say.
MadamLamprey (23 Mar 2016 11:41):
Wow thats really kind of rude ohyestheydo! How would you feel if someone said your stories were bad and had flaws huh? I bet that would make you really sad!! You dont have to be so darn rude!
ohyestheydo (23 Mar 2016 13:37):
@MadamLamprey: You'll understand when you're older what criticism is, dear.
@cacklemeyer: Speaking as an actual CM who has worked at the Haunted Mansion, there's a number of well-done guesses on the part of the writer, but it stops short of being believable for these reasons:
- There's only one security camera, in the load area. All other methods of detecting whether someone gets on or off the ride where they aren't supposed to are through intrusion mats and infrared beams. The ride won't even run unless they're turned on, so when the narrator says she got out and nothing halted, she should have known that what was happening was impossible.
- Walking through the attraction with the lights on is nothing special. We do it all the time for regular maintenance.
- There is a little workshop that is accessed through the Endless Hallway, and I think the writer mentioned that door. But there is no utilidor access from the show building in that corridor, which the CM should have known.
- Furthermore, you cannot go past the scrim at the end of the hall unless you break it.
- WDI never stores props underground.
- Also, in the first one, I'm pretty sure you can't go under the upramp in the Disneyland mansion. There'd be no space down there what with the equipment used to keep it running.
- That place the doombuggies go through to loop back to load isn't that long and looks nothing like that.
Freddie The Bat (23 Mar 2016 17:45):
ohyes, you must be a lot of fun at parties. :P
MadamLamprey (23 Mar 2016 18:02):
[This message has been removed.]
Ravenswood (23 Mar 2016 18:12):
Letting you off with a warning, MadamLamprey. I expect everyone to keep discussion civil and not resort to insults. As much as you might disagree with ohyes, personal attacks will not be tolerated.
YoungMasterGracey (23 Mar 2016 23:20):
Those are good points, ohyes, but I think you're missing the point on a couple of them. Obviously something supernatural and reality-bending is happening in these stories, which would mess with normal operating procedures and other elements. The "prop rooms" and the overlong loop for the buggies are part of that. The gist we're getting is that they only appear when someone dies in the parks and whatever is actually haunting the mansions is about. Everything else is speculation.
cacklemeyer (24 Mar 2016 12:15):
There could have been more security cameras in the 70s too. Feels like nitpicking to me.
I noticed something on another readthrough, by the way: in the second story the author said specifically eight people had died "on Walt Disney World resort property." Maybe she's referring to eight cases where people were actually declared dead, or confirmed dead before they crossed the property line? It's a small thing, but maybe the narrator knows an exact number we don't. Or could be as in the dark as we are. Who knows! *doffs detective's cap*
YoungMasterGracey (24 Mar 2016 16:30):
It's possible! It could be that these places appear every time there's a even a near-death experience, but only some doors appear. I think that the Man with the Cane and the Hatbox Ghost manifest whenever this happens, and if a person actually dies within the parks, that's when we get another prop door.
Freddie The Bat (24 Mar 2016 21:07):
Cannot tell if we're understanding a hidden theme or drawing attention to the author's lack of research. XD
MadamLamprey (25 Mar 2016 13:31):
Hey what about Tokyo and Paris? Both have a mansion and theres also Mystic manor even though that one isnt really a haunted mansion. Has anyone ever died in those parks? I want to know because my dad's taking me to Disney Paris soon to see my uncle who works there and maybe I can investigate too! Also can someone please read my story and leave a review???
Freddie The Bat (25 Mar 2016 18:24):
That's actually a good question, Lamprey. Did a little more morbid research (I think that's becoming my specialty) and surprisingly I couldn't find any reports of any fatal accidents at Tokyo Disneyland or DisneySea. Considering how long they've been around I'm impressed! Worst I found were couple of urban legends about child abductions and the usual stories of real ghosts in the Haunted Mansion there - objects seen on the ride that weren't there before, a ghostly woman standing at the end of a hallway, etc. Nothing spectacular.
Paris, on the other hand, is not so lucky. There's been three incidents that resulted in a death at the resort - that's still pretty small compared to DL and WDW!
cacklemeyer (25 Mar 2016 19:01):
Yikes. Thanks again, Freddie. Based on that it's likely that nothing would appear under Tokyo's mansion. Paris, though... What do you think that would be like?
YoungMasterGracey (25 Mar 2016 19:39):
For all we know, in these stories there's nothing beyond Disneyland and WDW's mansions. If you think about it - the real skeletons on Pirates of the Caribbean, the plane that went down in Florida before the park opened - those things give the idea that something macabre or tragic had already happened before the mansions were built. That doesn't apply to Tokyo and Paris.
cacklemeyer (25 Mar 2016 22:08):
OK, but Walt once said that he wanted to make a place for wayward ghosts from all over the world when they built the Haunted Mansion. That was part of the story gimmick for the ride but what if, in these stories, the people who die in the parks get stuck there, but need to be kept away from places that would upset guests? Simple solution: build a haunted house attraction and then keep the haunts in there. Kill two birds with one stone. That would be an interesting angle.
Freddie The Bat (26 Mar 2016 11:51):
Gotta love that diabolical Disney logic! Not a bad theory at all! You sure you didn't write these yourself, cackles? XD
MadamLamprey (27 Mar 2016 14:28):
OMG that makes so much sense! I always knew the mansion was really haunted ever since I frist rode it when I was 4 and I wanted to meet all the ghosts! Hey do you think that happened in Paris too? I'd be really scared if I saw the Phantom walking around like the HB ghost and the man with the cane but if it was Melanie Id feel a lot better because shes so pretty and has nice green eyes like my dad! My uncles friend who also works there said he'd take me backstage when I visit so I can see how everything works so maybe I can help get some answers!
YoungMasterGracey (27 Mar 2016 15:06):
Uh, Lamprey you know we're just talking about creepypasta, right?
cacklemeyer, that is a pretty neat idea, but without a third story in this "saga" we'll never really know. I kind of like the ambiguity though, since it lead to this discussion.
MadamLamprey (27 Mar 2016 19:43):
If its just a story then why are you guys spending so much time talking about it instead of reading my story?? I asked you a nicely a couple times! No ones left any comments on it or any of the other ones I posted and I know the other arent very good but I'm really proud of my bride story! Why cant you guys Read and talk about theries on mine?
Anyway their in the Library go read them please
Ravenswood (27 Mar 2016 20:17):
Another strike, MadamLamprey. You're straying from the topic.
MadamLamprey (27 Mar 2016 20:30):
Well how else am I going to get peopel to read my stories Ravenswood tell me that huh?? Why are you all ignoring me?
Freddie The Bat (27 Mar 2016 20:42):
If you're monitoring this I'd like to know what your thoughts are, Ravenswood. Now that your namesake attraction has been brought up I figured you'd have more to say!
MadamLamprey(27 Mar 2016 20:57):
[This message has been removed.]
MadamLamprey(27 Mar 2016 20:58):
[This message has been removed.]
MadamLamprey(27 Mar 2016 20:58):
[This message has been removed.]
MadamLamprey(27 Mar 2016 20:58):
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Ravenswood (27 Mar 2016 21:16):
Spamming links will also not be tolerated. I hate to ban, but ban I have.
Freddie, I also gave them a read. I feel like you all might be overthinking them, but I won't rain on your parade. They're entertaining and so is this topic. Just keep it in the realm of discussing fiction and you're good.
Freddie The Bat (27 Mar 2016 21:20):
It's OK boss. Lamprey was obnoxious but she just really appreciates Kingdom Hearts. I won't hold that against her. XD Plus we made it clear from the onset that we're just talking about pastas.
cacklemeyer (27 Mar 2016 21:34):
Thanks again, Ravenswood. Poor kid has no social skills.
Honestly I'm not sure how much more there is left to talk about. Unless someone writes a story about hidden tunnels under Phantom Manor I think we're out of material for solving the mystery. We'll never know what happened to Mike and Karen, who our respective narrators were, and why the HBG and the Man with the Cane do what they do. My theory is still that they appear when there's a death and then either guide or ferry the soul to the hidden places beneath the mansions, all to preserve the guest experience. In a way that makes the whole thing darker, imagining that all these poor souls are trapped down there in the limbo-space. Maybe they even get used for props, hence the labels on the doors? Who knows!
Either way, it does lend itself to a proper conspiracy discussion, even if it's not real.
ohyestheydo (28 Mar 2016 12:52):
Playing catch up a bit, now that Lamprey's gone. It's about time. She was spamming other boards too. You want to talk about laughable stories, well...
But keeping on topic (thank you, Ravenswood), I don't think it's nitpicking at all to point out where things aren't realistic in a story. I just wanted to make the case that whoever wrote at least the 2nd story is likely not a real Cast Member, or at least not a very good one if there are so many little errors. I would simply advise the author to do more research and revise it but... Well, it's already out in the internet. Too late for that, especially now that I've seen a few readings of it on YouTube (and I don't really like those).
ghostLAMP (1 Apr 2016 04:13):
Hey you assholes thought you could keep me out but GUESS WHAT its me!! I made another account and I know ravenswood is going to be a douche again and try to ban me but it doesnt matter anymore. I made this just so I can come back and say that you all never gave me a chance so Im going to show you all wrong!!! Also youll never see me again anyway after this but thats fine because everythings going to be awesome from now on! Everyone else is scared of going into the prop rooms but not me!! Im going to learn the truth and when I do I wont tell any of you you think these stories are fake but I know better! No I'm not going to die or anything I just have a plan to get the ghosts to come out just like in the stories you all seem to looooove so much! Anyway you all suck and I dont care if I meet the Phantom or Melanie when I go because youll all be sad that you wont know the REAL story! SO THERE!!!!!!!!!
Ravenswood (4 Apr 2016 11:29):I'm shutting this thread down.
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