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  • Hello, everyone, ClericofMadness here. I have a very important announcement to make regarding copyright and Creative Commons licensing, but first a little explanation and an apology.

    For a while now, we have had a policy of flexible Creative Commons licensing. I was informed recently that we should not continue with such a policy, and that in fact such a policy would have never have had any real, legal effect under Fandom’s standard licensing, which is CC-BY-SA.

    I was erroneously informed that it was possible for us to utilize the many Creative Commons licenses such as CC-BY-NC and others many, many years ago by a user that was more familiar with the workings of then-Wikia’s systems and licensing. Apparently, though, as Fandom Staff have duly informed me, this was never the case.

    I would therefore like to take this time to apologize for my mistake. I am sorry. This is the fault of no one but my own that these policies were “implemented” with the intentions of protecting authors’ rights. Intentions aside, I must now take action to correct the mistake I have made.

    This brings me to the point of this posting: the announcement and the plan. From this moment on, all stories on this wiki are to be considered under a CC-BY-SA license. There is no option to host stories under non-compliant licenses. Anything you write or upload to this wiki must be under a CC-BY-SA license.

    It is therefore with this understanding that from this moment on, stories or postings from Reddit are no longer allowed. Any current Reddit stories will be deleted and there will be a new posting policy added to the site rules that will clearly state this. Reddit uses an incompatible license, a copyright and not Creative Commons. As such, the content that has been posted from there will be removed in order to bring us into compliance.

    If you have posted a story on this site and you do not wish to have your story fall under a CC-BY-SA license, please add the category CCD and it will be deleted by an admin. At the end of this month (August), all remaining stories that are posted that have a licensing text that is not CC-BY-SA will be deleted as a courtesy to the authors. However, please do not take this as an invitation to do nothing; your desires as the rights holder will not be able to be enforced if you allow your works to remain.

    All of this having been said, however, I need to remind the YouTube narrators in the audience that if while you will not need to expressly ask for permission in order to read the stories on this website; it is appreciated greatly by almost every author.

    However, what is not optional is attribution. You must credit the author and the source when using material from this wiki. The attribution should include a link to the page with the full story title intact, a link to the author’s user page, and a link to the Creative Commons CC-BY-SA license page with a note that the work presented is derivative. Overall, the attribution should include the title, author, source, and license. The minimum you must include in an attribution is a link to the story, the author’s username, and a link to the CC-BY-SA license with a note that the work is derivative.

    If you do not correctly include all of those, you are committing copyright violation and can be subject to a copyright strike on your channel by the author. All new narration videos must follow this proper attribution guideline from this point forward. For questions about existing videos, please use Special:Contact to talk to staff about the attribution process for older videos. I do not know what version of the license was previously used nor if/when it was changed. This is beyond my knowledge.

    This attribution policy also extends to people wishing to use the content on this wiki on articles, advertisements, etc. Proper attribution must be given regardless of where the content is being used. As an additional note, not that it has previously come into play before, if you intend to redistribute a work from this wiki, you will need to release your derivative content under a CC-BY-SA license. You cannot claim copyright, nor can you release it under CC-BY-NC, CC-BY-ND, etc.

    Thank you for your attention in this matter, and again, I am sorry for my mistake in this issue. If you have questions, comments, concerns, or any issues relating to this topic, please leave a message on my talk page or comment on this thread.

    PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE THIS POST WHEN MAKING A REPLY TO THIS TOPIC

    PLEASE KEEP ALL DISCUSSIONS ON-TOPIC. OFF-TOPIC POSTS OR REPLIES WILL BE DELETED. MULTIPLE OFF-TOPIC POSTS WILL BE GROUNDS FOR SUSPENSION OF EDITING ABILITIES TEMPORARILY. THIS IS AN IMPORTANT ISSUE THAT HAS A DIRECT IMPACT ON THE CONTENT OF THIS SITE AND A PERCENTAGE OF USERS.

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    • ArcOfRuin
      ArcOfRuin removed this reply because:
      Didn’t understand. Sorry
      20:44, August 14, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • ArcOfRuin wrote: If I post a story on Reddit and give permission for it to be posted here, would I be able to put it up here?

      You would be releasing the story under a CC-BY-SA license if you did so, but yes. If you desire to repost your content on here and are okay with it being able to be used under the terms of a CC-BY-SA license you, as the author, are free to choose to do so. Just kindly do not refer to it as a "Reddit pasta", as that will only cause confusion and deletion.

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    • Okay, thank you.

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    • Just so I'm clear, because I'm not very copyright knowledgable, already existing stories that are not marked with CCD will automatically have their copyright changed to CC-BY-SA, correct?

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    • TheWizardOfTheWoods wrote: Just so I'm clear, because I'm not very copyright knowledgable, already existing stories that are not marked with CCD will automatically have their copyright changed to CC-BY-SA, correct?

      All stories are already considered to be CC-BY-SA currently. That category is a way to streamline deletion of content authors don't want to have fall under that license. As a courtesy to inactive or unaware authors, we will be deleting anything that purports to be posted under other license st the end of the month.

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    • Gotcha. Thanks for clarification.

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    • Maybe I've misunderstood your post, but it sounds like you're only deleting stories if they're marked with a noncopliant license. You must delete all stories with no license stated, as well, regardless of marking. You cannot legally place a license on someone else's work unless the original creator uploaded it while agreeing to your license.

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    • Slimebeast wrote: Maybe I've misunderstood your post, but it sounds like you're only deleting stories if they're marked with a noncopliant license. You must delete all stories with no license stated, as well, regardless of marking. You cannot legally place a license on someone else's work unless the original creator uploaded it while agreeing to your license.

      We are looking into removing all content that is non-compliant. This will, in the end, involve the tracking down of the original authors of hundreds if not thousands of creepypasta in order to ascertain whether or not A) the piece was originally posted by the original author and B) what their licensing is.

      For those stories that do not have traceable, trackable, verifiable authors I will be contacting staff for advisement on how to proceed. They are not anonymous but rather are internet folklore that has no known original poster or author to attribute. It's not a legal area I feel remotely comfortable touching but the Fandom legal team will likely know how to deal with them (Read: Probably delete, but just making sure, as 4chan issues copyright to the original poster).

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    • Slimebeast wrote: Maybe I've misunderstood your post, but it sounds like you're only deleting stories if they're marked with a noncopliant license. You must delete all stories with no license stated, as well, regardless of marking. You cannot legally place a license on someone else's work unless the original creator uploaded it while agreeing to your license.

      Content posted on the wiki (and any wiki) is by default licensed as CC-BY-SA. This is stated on the front page (also on the terms of service and the licensing agreement). Ignorance of this is not an excuse. People who didn't read this and posted their story on here agreed to post this under the particular license, so these stories will not be deleted unless the authors want to.

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    • Underscorre
      Underscorre removed this reply because:
      Duplicate
      22:31, August 14, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • Underscorre
      Underscorre removed this reply because:
      Ninja'd by Dupin
      22:31, August 14, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • MrDupin wrote:

      Slimebeast wrote: Maybe I've misunderstood your post, but it sounds like you're only deleting stories if they're marked with a noncopliant license. You must delete all stories with no license stated, as well, regardless of marking. You cannot legally place a license on someone else's work unless the original creator uploaded it while agreeing to your license.

      Content posted on the wiki (and any wiki) is by default licensed as CC-BY-SA. This is stated on the front page (also on the terms of service and the licensing agreement). Ignorance of this is not an excuse. People who didn't read this and posted their story on here agreed to post this under the particular license, so these stories will not be deleted unless the authors want to.

      What they are saying is that we cannot license stories we don't own the copyright to under the CC-By-SA license.

      Example, someone uploads a story they found online but don't attribute it or add a license header. In this case we would need to get into contact with the poster to find out if they are the author. If they are not the author then we need to either delete the pasta, as the author did not agree to license it, or track down the author and see if they will license it under CC-By-SA.

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    • Llanunall wrote:

      MrDupin wrote:

      Slimebeast wrote: Maybe I've misunderstood your post, but it sounds like you're only deleting stories if they're marked with a noncopliant license. You must delete all stories with no license stated, as well, regardless of marking. You cannot legally place a license on someone else's work unless the original creator uploaded it while agreeing to your license.

      Content posted on the wiki (and any wiki) is by default licensed as CC-BY-SA. This is stated on the front page (also on the terms of service and the licensing agreement). Ignorance of this is not an excuse. People who didn't read this and posted their story on here agreed to post this under the particular license, so these stories will not be deleted unless the authors want to.

      What they are saying is that we cannot license stories we don't own the copyright to under the CC-By-SA license.

      Example, someone uploads a story they found online but don't attribute it or add a license header. In this case we would need to get into contact with the poster to find out if they are the author. If they are not the author then we need to either delete the pasta, as the author did not agree to license it, or track down the author and see if they will license it under CC-By-SA.

      That would be a huge overkill. I can't recall anybody enforcing their copyright here, so I doubt there are many cases such as the above.

      Besides, if we go by this logic, every story on the wiki not posted by the original author should be deleted. And even then, how do we know if they really are the original author? It's either the whole wiki is deleted, or the stories with no licensing stay.

      I am 100% sure this will not be an issue. As an example, from what I understand, when you post on Reddit you immediately copyright your work. So, if I post a story there, even if it's not mine, I get the copyright to it. There is nothing preventing me from doing that, and Reddit is fine. So we are fine too.

      I am no lawyer, but I highly doubt the burden in these cases falls on the host. There would be nothing on the internet if that was the case.

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    • MrDupin wrote:

      Llanunall wrote:

      What they are saying is that we cannot license stories we don't own the copyright to under the CC-By-SA license.

      Example, someone uploads a story they found online but don't attribute it or add a license header. In this case we would need to get into contact with the poster to find out if they are the author. If they are not the author then we need to either delete the pasta, as the author did not agree to license it, or track down the author and see if they will license it under CC-By-SA.

      That would be a huge overkill. I can't recall anybody enforcing their copyright here, so I doubt there are many cases such as the above.

      Besides, if we go by this logic, every story on the wiki not posted by the original author should be deleted. And even then, how do we know if they really are the original author? It's either the whole wiki is deleted, or the stories with no licensing stay.

      I am 100% sure this will not be an issue. As an example, from what I understand, when you post on Reddit you immediately copyright your work. So, if I post a story there, even if it's not mine, I get the copyright to it. There is nothing preventing me from doing that, and Reddit is fine. So we are fine too.

      I am no lawyer, but I highly doubt the burden in these cases falls on the host. There would be nothing on the internet if that was the case.

      It is not a matter of whether or not someone is going to enforce their copyright. It is a matter of whether or not we have the right to re-license stories without the permission of the author. Which we don't.

      The point is that stories we do not know the true author of are ones the Cleric is going to go to staff about. Every other story though needs to be posted by the author and under the CC-By-SA license expressly. It seems like a significant amount of stories are going to go though based on the OP.

      That is a grave misunderstanding. Reddit makes no claim to copyright nor does it force a license. Because of this it is assumed that you have the permission to repost content there if it is not yours. However, if it is your content, under US law you automatically get copyright for the work when it is created. Copyright is granted upon creation, not posting.

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    • This is what the ToS states:

      In all cases, you are solely responsible for all content, including but not limited to photos, profiles information, messages, comments, and other content (”Content”) that you upload, publish or display (hereinafter, "submit") on or through the Site, or transmit to or share with other users. You may not submit Content to the Site that you did not create or that you do not have the right to submit. You may not submit Content that is not compatible with the license used by the applicable part of the Site to which you are submitting Content.

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    • MrDupin wrote: This is what the ToS states:

      In all cases, you are solely responsible for all content, including but not limited to photos, profiles information, messages, comments, and other content (”Content”) that you upload, publish or display (hereinafter, "submit") on or through the Site, or transmit to or share with other users. You may not submit Content to the Site that you did not create or that you do not have the right to submit. You may not submit Content that is not compatible with the license used by the applicable part of the Site to which you are submitting Content.

      Which means that all content that we do not have the rights to and which is not compatible with CC-By-SA we cannot have it.

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    • As a side note, I'm happy to get That One Machine set up to message authors with incompatible pastas & get rid of pages still explicitly licensed under CC BY-NC/ND at the end of this month, if the admins want, though it will need its bot/admin rights back.

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    • Underscorre wrote: As a side note, I'm happy to get That One Machine set up to message authors with incompatible pastas & get rid of pages still explicitly licensed under CC BY-NC/ND at the end of this month, if the admins want, though it will need its bot/admin rights back.

      Can you actually do that? That would be super helpful (also, I may need your help in other bot-related matters).

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    • Llanunall wrote:

      MrDupin wrote: This is what the ToS states:

      In all cases, you are solely responsible for all content, including but not limited to photos, profiles information, messages, comments, and other content (”Content”) that you upload, publish or display (hereinafter, "submit") on or through the Site, or transmit to or share with other users. You may not submit Content to the Site that you did not create or that you do not have the right to submit. You may not submit Content that is not compatible with the license used by the applicable part of the Site to which you are submitting Content.

      Which means that all content that we do not have the rights to and which is not compatible with CC-By-SA we cannot have it.

      Exactly.

      The thing is, this is a bit of a bizarre wiki. People post their stories here, and it is impossible to check for copyright. People could be posting stories that are not theirs and putting them under the CC-BY-SA license. Just as the rest of the internet, we just cannot know.

      Cleric is going to contact Staff and we'll get a concrete answer on how to proceed. I highly doubt we will have to do anything about most stories here, but I'm no lawyer.

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    • MrDupin wrote: ~snip~

      Yep, I think I can get the code done in a day or two, it would target pastas using the {{by}} family of templates with the license parameter set. Send me a message on my talk/Discord for any bot stuff :)

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    • Underscorre wrote:

      MrDupin wrote: ~snip~

      Yep, I think I can get the code done in a day or two, it would target pastas using the {{by}} family of templates with the license parameter set. Send me a message on my talk/Discord for any bot stuff :)

      Here is the API endpoint if you want it

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    • Llanunall wrote:

      Underscorre wrote:

      MrDupin wrote: ~snip~

      Yep, I think I can get the code done in a day or two, it would target pastas using the {{by}} family of templates with the license parameter set. Send me a message on my talk/Discord for any bot stuff :)

      Here is the API endpoint if you want it

      I've got it, but thanks anyway :)

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    • Llanunall wrote:

      Underscorre wrote:

      MrDupin wrote: ~snip~

      Yep, I think I can get the code done in a day or two, it would target pastas using the {{by}} family of templates with the license parameter set. Send me a message on my talk/Discord for any bot stuff :)

      Here is the API endpoint if you want it

      Are these the stories under CC-BY-NC/ND?

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    • MrDupin wrote: Are these the stories under CC-BY-NC/ND?

      No, they're all the ones that transclude the {{By}} template. The bot will need to go through each one & check if the template specifies a license.

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    • AH, OK.

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    • I was actually thinking about changing all my stories to NC this week. Oh well, at least now I won't have to worry about the decision anymore.

      I have also had lingering concerns about the amount of Reddit pastas uploaded here by people who aren't aware that NoSleep and its satellite subs aren't CC. Glad we're taking action about that.

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    • Cleric, how will this affect the rule about author categories requiring ten wiki original stories as opposed to stories the author first posted on Reddit?

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    • HopelessNightOwl wrote: Cleric, how will this affect the rule about author categories requiring ten wiki original stories as opposed to stories the author first posted on Reddit?

      If the author wishes to post their Reddit stories for the purposes of the category or otherwise they are always welcome to do so. They just need to remember that they are issuing the content under a Fandom-compatible license when they do so.

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    • I was just asking because Banning's original blog post explaining the rules of the category says Reddit pasta's don't count.

      Can you ask the admins to be extra careful when deleting CCD stories (out of curiosity I'm assuming it stands for Creative Commons Delete) to make sure it was the author who added the category and not someone else who did it either to vandalize or from misunderstanding the purpose?

      Also, will the uploaders of Reddit pastas be informed of their deletions? Maybe a talk page template could be made for admins to use that says basically "A story you have uploaded has been deleted because Reddit is not creative commons and frankly we shouldn't have let people upload Reddit pastas without proven permission to begin with. If you are the author and would like to claim and reupload the story, please do such and such. Apologies for the confusion." What do you think?

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    • I very sorry, but I don't understand. Is there anything I need to do? My plan is continue as I have before. The Creepypasta wiki is my primary site for posting my stories and I have no plans to change that. what would I need to do to maintain that? thanks so much for your help

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    • KillaHawke1 wrote: I very sorry, but I don't understand. Is there anything I need to do? My plan is continue as I have before. The Creepypasta wiki is my primary site for posting my stories and I have no plans to change that. what would I need to do to maintain that? thanks so much for your help

      If this is where you post your stories then you just need to be aware that what you do post is licensed under the CC-By-SA license.

      More about that here.

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    • I'm trying to add the CCD category to The Seer of Possibilities but it keeps showing up in red - not sure what I'm doing wrong. Could you please have this story deleted? Thank you.

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    • So, I was right all along when I assumed that the second I post my stories here, I no longer have the right to post them elsewhere? Disappointing, but not surprising. I always found this site to be by far the most convenient, so I'll almost certainly keep posting my stories here. Besides, in theory CC-BY-SA is the perfect licence... I just have the same worries as HopelessNightOwl, that random people could pretend to be the authors of stories in order to get them deleted (and not just from here, but narrations on Youtube, etc. as well).

      Another question, which is hopefully not considered off-topic (even though it's pretty specific) since it's still about licencing on this Wiki: for a long and complex story that's still mostly just in the planning stage, I've been writing smaller "foundational stories" and posting them anonymously on 4chan, 8chan and Reddit for about five years to establish "lore" or whatever; when I get around to finishing the full story (and posting it here), which could be years from now, would I have the right to quote those? I obviously can't change their licencing since they're already gone and/or archived, and don't even have any way to prove that I wrote them... besides, including something like "licenced CC-BY-SA" would completely break the realism of stories that are supposed to be "true".

      Well, anyway, hopefully this licencepocalypse won't lead to the site dying.

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    • VerminGoat wrote: So, I was right all along when I assumed that the second I post my stories here, I no longer have the right to post them elsewhere? Disappointing, but not surprising.

      I believe you may be mistaken here. Posting your stories here automatically licenses them under CC BY-SA. That doesn't prevent you from posting them elsewhere, you still have the right to do whatever you want with your story (it's still your intellectual property), it only affects what others can do with it.

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    • Underscorre wrote: I believe you may be mistaken here. Posting your stories here automatically licenses them under CC BY-SA. That doesn't prevent you from posting them elsewhere, you still have the right to do whatever you want with your story (it's still your intellectual property), it only affects what others can do with it.

      That just sounds too good to be true. Like, how could something be licenced in two different ways at the same time? I'd like people to be able to do whatever they want with my stories provided that they credit me as the author, which is in theory what CC-BY-SA guarantees, but what if on another site everything is automatically licenced under a full copyright? Wouldn't that mean I can't post my story there if I've already posted it here since I'd be violating the licencing that I published my story under by posting it here?

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    • VerminGoat wrote: That just sounds too good to be true. Like, how could something be licenced in two different ways at the same time? I'd like people to be able to do whatever they want with my stories provided that they credit me as the author, which is in theory what CC-BY-SA guarantees, but what if on another site everything is automatically licenced under a full copyright? Wouldn't that mean I can't post my story there if I've already posted it here since I'd be violating the licencing that I published my story under by posting it here?

      Ohhh, I see what you mean, sorry, I was being a bit slow. You're right that it can't be licensed in two different ways, I thought you were talking about posting it elsewhere under the same license. Apologies!

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    • VerminGoat wrote:

      Underscorre wrote: -snip-

      That just sounds too good to be true. Like, how could something be licenced in two different ways at the same time? I'd like people to be able to do whatever they want with my stories provided that they credit me as the author, which is in theory what CC-BY-SA guarantees, but what if on another site everything is automatically licenced under a full copyright? Wouldn't that mean I can't post my story there if I've already posted it here since I'd be violating the licencing that I published my story under by posting it here?

      First of all, as Underscorre said, you are free to post your stories from here to anywhere else.

      Second, from my understanding, if you don't care about the license of your story (or if you want your story to be CC-BY-SA or similar), you will not have an issue. For example, Reddit gives you the copyright to your story. Then, you post the same story here. This results in the copyright from Reddit being voided and that work will be licensed under CC-BY-SA. If you are OK with that, you are fine.

      Problems arise when you explicitly give the copyright of your story to someone else. For example, if you submit your story for a commercial anthology, the publisher might prohibit you from sharing your story in any other way. I am certain no such restrictions apply to Reddit (I haven't checked, but I assume Reddit gives the user the copyright to their content).

      So, as long you have the copyright to your story (which came, for example, from Reddit), you can do whatever you want with your story.

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    • MrDupin wrote: So, as long you have the copyright to your story (which came, for example, from Reddit), you can do whatever you want with your story.

      But what if it's the other way around? If I first post it here, then somewhere else, like Blogger for example. Would I need to explicitly note that it's licenced CC-BY-SA, because otherwise the CC-BY-SA that the story was licenced under when I posted it on this Wiki would be voided? Or would it still stand because it's less restrictive than full copyright, and rights can only be loosened but not tightened...?

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    • VerminGoat wrote:

      MrDupin wrote: So, as long you have the copyright to your story (which came, for example, from Reddit), you can do whatever you want with your story.

      But what if it's the other way around? If I first post it here, then somewhere else, like Blogger for example. Would I need to explicitly note that it's licenced CC-BY-SA, because otherwise the CC-BY-SA that the story was licenced under when I posted it on this Wiki would be voided? Or would it still stand because it's less restrictive than full copyright, and rights can only be loosened but not tightened...?

      Again, I'm no lawyer, but I believe if you post it here, it is CC-BY-SA, no matter if you post it elsewhere before or after (that is, unless you give the rights to your stories to someone, like a publisher).

      Also, I am pretty sure the only one who can enforce your copyright is you. Nobody is going to do anything about it. So at the end of the day, if you don't care how your story is licensed, it does not matter. Maybe a troll will claim your stories as theirs, but that is a claim that can't be backed (plus, I've never seen it happen) unless you have yourself done some unconventional stuff (maybe, for example, you sent your story to someone to post it, because you couldn't, and now the other person cannot be found).

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    • Let me address some gross misunderstandings here.

      First, when you create a work you automatically have a copyright on it. You made it, it is yours, that's it. To be clear, copyright is given upon creation not when you post it.

      Second, CC-By-SA does not void your copyright. When you license a story under CC-By-SA you are not giving up your copyright, it is still yours. CC-By-SA can be thought of as extending what is allowed under Fair Use. It makes it clear that you are able to remix and share it but only as long as you give credit to the copyright holder, in this case the author, and that any derivatives are to be licensed under CC-By-SA.

      Third, you cannot void copyright or CC-By-SA. When you, the author, post a story here you acknowledge and agree to release it under the CC-By-SA license. If you then to go on to post it on to another site without following the Share-Alike and Attribution requirements you are breaking the terms of the license. While you shouldn't do this you are, in the end, the one policing the use of your content.

      Now, if another person were to share it in a way that violates the terms of the license you are free to use the recourse provided by the Digital Millennium Copyright Act to remedy it. But their misuse of your content doesn't void the license.

      Also worth noting, you cannot revoke the CC-By-SA license.

      Once you post it under this license that content is irrevocably CC-By-SA.


      Think of CC-By-SA as an agreement between an author and those who want to use the content. Normally, under the DMCA, you either need the express permission of the copyright holder to: share it in full, create derivatives, or commercialize it or you need to use the work in a way that constitutes Fair Use.

      Both of these things can be absolutely prohibitive for both the author of the story and the creators who want to use it. Because of this the CC-By-SA license comes into play. It is an additional agreement between the author and the creators that allows the creators to use the work how they wish as long as they meet some basic requirements.

      To read more about these requirements you can read my blog or the Creative Commons breakdown.

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    • Thanks for clearing these up, but let's not get hang up on technicalities (unless you are an actual lawyer who studied copyright law, in which case please let us know).

      First, when you create a work you automatically have a copyright on it. You made it, it is yours, that's it. To be clear, copyright is given upon creation not when you post it.

      If you don't establish your copyright though simply creating it won't cut it. If someone steals this work of yours and they publish and establish their copyright on this work, you just lost it (unless you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that your work was stolen and that you created it).

      Llanunall wrote:

      Third, you cannot void copyright or CC-By-SA.

      I think you also got too hang on my "void the copyright" term. What I obviously meant was that no matter what license Reddit marks your work as, the story is licensed as CC-BY-SA if you post it here, as per the ToS of this site. I didn't mean that you no longer hold the rights to your stories, that wouldn't make sense.

      Also, can you clarify what you mean by this:

      Llanunall wrote: Also worth noting, you cannot revoke the CC-By-SA license.

      I am not sure this is true. I know of authors who have posted their work here and then needed the work published (under a third-party publisher). These authors subsequently deleted their stories from here because they shared the rights to their story with this publisher.

      ---

      All in all, I would really like to keep discussions here as simple (and therefore practical) as possible to help the authors who need assistance in a timely manner. If you are an actual lawyer, I apologize, but otherwise let's not spread information we can't vouch for with absolute certainty. We are contacting the legal team on Wikia Staff to help us out with this, there is no need to get into technicalities here.

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    • If you don't establish your copyright though simply creating it won't cut it. If someone steals this work of yours and they publish and establish their copyright on this work, you just lost it (unless you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that your work was stolen and that you created it).

      Technically yes, if you want to be able to claim copyright you need to establish it in a way that makes it clear that you are the original author. Most of the time this isn't a problem because no one is breaking into your computer to steal your short stories before you post them.

      The only time I can think of where this gets hazy is when you grab a story from 4chan. I think in this case it would be hard to argue ownership either way between two parties because of how anonymous the platform is. This is a matter you would probably need a keen lawyer to discern case by case.

      I think you also got too hang on my "void the copyright" term. What I obviously meant was that no matter what license Reddit marks your work as, the story is licensed as CC-BY-SA if you post it here, as per the ToS of this site. I didn't mean that you no longer hold the rights to your stories, that wouldn't make sense.

      I probably did infer something other than what you meant there.

      If you post your story here then you have released it under CC-By-SA and you cannot revoke that. But if you go ahead and post it to reddit as well without acknowledging that it is available under CC-By-SA you are breaking the terms of your own license. But, doing so doesn't change the fact that you already made the content available under CC-By-SA.

      I am not sure this is true. I know of authors who have posted their work here and then needed the work published (under a third-party publisher). These authors subsequently deleted their stories from here because they shared the rights to their story with this publisher.

      See: What if I change my mind about using a CC license?

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    • Let's play pretend.


      I'm a YouTube Narrator, CreepyPeePeePooPoo.

      I come to the Wiki to find a story to read on my channel.

      Cool, these are all CC-BY-SA.

      I decide to read "The Lost Pokemon Episode Where Misty Vores Ash" by ClumptyBump2000.

      I read it, credit it, monetize it.

      Later, I get a message from some dude named Clint Chorechester. He says he's the actual author of the story, and ClumptyBump2000 is just someone who copy/pasted it to the wiki.

      The Creepypasta Wiki lied to me about the license, and lied about the license Clint Chorechester's story was released under.


      You guys cannot put your own license on other creators' works without their permission. Doesn't matter how it got here. If the original author posted it here back when you guys said they could have other licenses, you STILL cannot change the license on the work now.


      I can't stress enough - changing the license of someone else's creative work is probably actionable in court if there are damages due to that. For example, someone making and selling a product, then citing your "CC-BY-SA" license.


      ​​​​​Changing licenses without permission opens the door to so many Amazon eBooks collecting stories here and selling them. That alone is a big problem, and it's just the tip of the iceberg.



      Drop the "let's not worry' and "let's not get technical" stuff. If you're running a professional website and expect to be treated professionally, you worry about technicalities and you solve problems before they occur. This wiki will not place licenses on works uploaded by someone other than the author.

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    • Slimebeast wrote: -snip-

      We never changed any license. As per the ToS, any story posted here is marked as CC-BY-SA. If you are an author and you post your story here, it becomes CC-BY-SA whether you want it or not. That's how agreeing to a ToS works. The problem is that users can post content they do not have permission here. Again, as per the ToS, the burden is on those users who posted without permission.

      Now, stories that are anything other than CC-BY-SA will be removed, unless the author agrees to change it to CC-BY-SA.

      PS: This is why I believe Creative Commons licensing can be "removed" (not sure of the technical term). If I post a story of yours on Reddit, it is not mine, even though I am given the rights to it as per the Reddit rules.

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    • (This is all incredibly stupid, by the way, not because of anyone here, but because Wikia/Fandom has tons of wikis about comics, films, and more. None of the images or content uploaded to those are CC-BY-SA. XD)

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    • Reddit's policy on copyrighted content

      Reddit does not give you rights to anything you post. Reddit says that you need to have the rights to post it and if you do not then you are violating the copyright of the creator.

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    • Also, about the "not get technical" comment. I am not a lawyer. I assume nobody else here is either. So I suggest we do not share technical information with much conviction, since we could be wrong. We are dealing with the technicalities with the Legal Staff of Wikia. No need for any of that here.

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    • MrDupin wrote: Also, about the "not get technical" comment. I am not a lawyer. I assume nobody else here is either. So I suggest we do not share technical information with much conviction, since we could be wrong. We are dealing with the technicalities with the Legal Staff of Wikia. No need for any of that here.

      It is absolutely necessary when people are telling others things that are flat out incorrect. If you want to be smart about it you will stop trying to explain copyright to people in this thread and instead direct them to FANDOM Staff.

      This is a two edged sword.

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    • Llanunall wrote:

      MrDupin wrote: Also, about the "not get technical" comment. I am not a lawyer. I assume nobody else here is either. So I suggest we do not share technical information with much conviction, since we could be wrong. We are dealing with the technicalities with the Legal Staff of Wikia. No need for any of that here.

      It is absolutely necessary when people are telling others things that are flat out incorrect. If you want to be smart about it you will stop trying to explain copyright to people in this thread and instead direct them to FANDOM Staff.

      This is a two edged sword.

      Point me to what advice of action I gave that is wrong.

      The guy I was responding to had a very clear case: He had written stories that he posted both here and on Reddit. The user does have the right to have the stories published both here and on Reddit. As I said in the comments, I am not a lawyer and I am not that knowledgeable in this area. But in this case, the user in question can have the stories posted on both sites. This is what I told him.

      If you want to provide feedback to specific users, feel free to do so (to a reasonable degree for clear-cut cases). But posting your take on Licensing in general is not OK, neither is getting into technicalities or advising users that are in a complex situation.

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    • I am 100% sure this will not be an issue. As an example, from what I understand, when you post on Reddit you immediately copyright your work. So, if I post a story there, even if it's not mine, I get the copyright to it. There is nothing preventing me from doing that, and Reddit is fine. So we are fine too.

      Second, from my understanding, if you don't care about the license of your story (or if you want your story to be CC-BY-SA or similar), you will not have an issue. For example, Reddit gives you the copyright to your story. Then, you post the same story here. This results in the copyright from Reddit being voided and that work will be licensed under CC-BY-SA. If you are OK with that, you are fine.

      Again, the smart thing to do would be to direct them to FANDOM Staff specifically.

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    • Again with the voided thing. Nobody cares, if the user in question is the one who posted both on Reddit and on the Wiki, there is no issue. Who is going to copyright strike him? Himself?

      As I advised the user, he will have no issue. Sure, I admit I may be wrong about the exact licensing (if you post on both sites, is it by CC-BY-SA?). Even though I still believe it will be CC-BY-SA, since Reddit doesn't seem to be changing anything.

      Bottom line is, I advised the user that if he does not care about the license, he should not worry about it. That is correct.

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    • Llanunall wrote:

      Again, the smart thing to do would be to direct them to FANDOM Staff specifically.

      Sorry, I am not going to tell users who do not care about their license to go to Staff. This is a long and unnecessary process. That's why I told the user that he doesn't need to worry, since he is the sole holder of his rights (he has not responded since, so I assume I am correct in that he does not mind, as long as he is covered). If a user in a more complex situation comes forward, I will tell him to ask Staff.

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    • Can you name some creators who don't care about their license? Like... five to ten?

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    • Slimebeast wrote: Can you name some creators who don't care about their license? Like... five to ten?

      When I said "not caring about license" I didn't mean "I don't care if I have the rights to my story or not", if that's what you are implying. That's quite a bizarre interpretation. If that's what you mean, I can point to quite a few. I assume most people who mark their story as "CC-BY-SA" on the wiki don't care about the license, since CC-BY-SA is pretty much the most open license where one retains his rights. There, I got at least five.

      The user in question clearly has the rights to his story (assuming that he's truthful). The thing is, it's a bit fuzzy which is the exact license (I still believe it's CC-BY-SA, since Reddit doesn't seem to impose anything) and he asked if he will have an issue. The user here doesn't care which is the license, saying that CC-BY-SA sounds too good to be true, hence he doesn't need to worry about it.

      To put it into simple words:

      a) The user has written a story (which means he has the rights to the story)
      b) The user has posted the story on both Reddit and the Wiki
      c) The user still has the rights to his stories (under some license, probably CC-BY-SA)
      d) The user asks if he needs to worry about it

      Then I chimed in and said that he doesn't need to worry. Do you honestly think he needs to worry? I don't get all the fuss. Why on earth would I point the poor soul to the legal team of Wikia, when he has the rights to his stories and doesn't care about the particular license? What is gonna happen, he is gonna get a copyright strike from himself?

      Anyway, I will not be talking about said user here any more, unless he himself comes forward with more information. If for some reason anyone wants to talk about the user to me, please do it on my talk page.

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    • ClericofMadness wrote:

      ArcOfRuin wrote: If I post a story on Reddit and give permission for it to be posted here, would I be able to put it up here?

      You would be releasing the story under a CC-BY-SA license if you did so, but yes. If you desire to repost your content on here and are okay with it being able to be used under the terms of a CC-BY-SA license you, as the author, are free to choose to do so. Just kindly do not refer to it as a "Reddit pasta", as that will only cause confusion and deletion.

      So, I posted a story that I originally authored on Reddit; I'm perfectly fine with releasing it under CC-BY-SA. Do I have to do anything to the page in order to make it CC-BY-SA?

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    • AlixeTiir wrote:

      ClericofMadness wrote:

      ArcOfRuin wrote: If I post a story on Reddit and give permission for it to be posted here, would I be able to put it up here?

      You would be releasing the story under a CC-BY-SA license if you did so, but yes. If you desire to repost your content on here and are okay with it being able to be used under the terms of a CC-BY-SA license you, as the author, are free to choose to do so. Just kindly do not refer to it as a "Reddit pasta", as that will only cause confusion and deletion.

      So, I posted a story that I originally authored on Reddit; I'm perfectly fine with releasing it under CC-BY-SA. Do I have to do anything to the page in order to make it CC-BY-SA?

      You don't have to do anything, don't worry about it.

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    • Hey guys, just an update on the bot situation, the code is coming on well, should be finished tomorrow/the day after. It will message any pasta authors who have stories with incompatible licenses in the {{By}} or {{By-user}} templates ASAP, to inform them of what's going on, then delete the offending pastas at the end of the month if edits aren't made.

      Right now, I'm working on a message to leave on the talk pages of authors with incompatible pastas - see User:That One Machine/License Warn. I would really appreciate any help/feedback about this, I'm trying to get a lot of stuff done quickly & it's probably full of errors. Obviously it's very long rn, I felt like there was quite a lot of info that needed to be included.

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    • Underscorre wrote: Hey guys, just an update on the bot situation, the code is coming on well, should be finished tomorrow/the day after. It will message any pasta authors who have stories with incompatible licenses in the {{By}} or {{By-user}} templates ASAP, to inform them of what's going on, then delete the offending pastas at the end of the month if edits aren't made.

      Right now, I'm working on a message to leave on the talk pages of authors with incompatible pastas - see User:That One Machine/License Warn. I would really appreciate any help/feedback about this, I'm trying to get a lot of stuff done quickly & it's probably full of errors. Obviously it's very long rn, I felt like there was quite a lot of info that needed to be included.

      That's very good, thanks man! This is very much appreciated, I don't think I could have had a bot up and running this fast.

      The message looks good, although I'm not sure if there is a need for the deadline. I would wait on Cleric to give us the details.

      By the way, can your bot still delete stories, even if you're not an admin? (I don't have a problem with it, since I trust you, but asking out of curiosity since I am not sure yet of the bot-powers)

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    • This is a dumb question, but is it possible to deliberately give up copyright on one's work?

      (Like, people can use the characters and situations without crediting you or involving you in any way?)

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    • Squidmanescape wrote: This is a dumb question, but is it possible to deliberately give up copyright on one's work?

      (Like, people can use the characters and situations without crediting you or involving you in any way?)


      As long as someone else doesn't own the copyright to your work, it should be possible, though I don't know what the typical way of actively doing so is.

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    • I'm just going to mark the stories I don't want copyright for.

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    • I'm pretty sure we have a template for that. Let me check.

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    • Squidmanescape wrote:
      This is a dumb question, but is it possible to deliberately give up copyright on one's work?

      (Like, people can use the characters and situations without crediting you or involving you in any way?)

      This is called releasing your work into the public domain. Wikipedia has an excellent article on the subject, especially with how it relates to wikis using the material.

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    • NVM, the template I thought was that is actually just to mark a page as missing license info.

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    • AlixeTiir wrote:

      Squidmanescape wrote:
      This is a dumb question, but is it possible to deliberately give up copyright on one's work?

      (Like, people can use the characters and situations without crediting you or involving you in any way?)

      This is called releasing your work into the public domain. Wikipedia has an excellent article on the subject, especially with how it relates to wikis using the material.

      There is also the CC0 license which is a ported public domain license which includes support for countries without the notion of public domain in their copyright law.

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    • Llanunall wrote: There is also the CC0 license which is a ported public domain license which includes support for countries without the notion of public domain in their copyright law.

      Yes, but the relevant template has a date thing which implies that I have to be dead, because it's been used as an "in the public domain via passage of time" marker.

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    • Squidmanescape wrote:

      Llanunall wrote: There is also the CC0 license which is a ported public domain license which includes support for countries without the notion of public domain in their copyright law.

      Yes, but the relevant template has a date thing which implies that I have to be dead, because it's been used as an "in the public domain via passage of time" marker.

      That's because whoever made the template didn't know the difference between PD and CC0.

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    • MrDupin wrote: That's very good, thanks man! This is very much appreciated, I don't think I could have had a bot up and running this fast.

      The message looks good, although I'm not sure if there is a need for the deadline. I would wait on Cleric to give us the details.

      By the way, can your bot still delete stories, even if you're not an admin? (I don't have a problem with it, since I trust you, but asking out of curiosity since I am not sure yet of the bot-powers)

      I went for the deadline because of the stuff about deleting pastas at the end of August in the op, but yeah, going for a specific date at this time is probably a bit too hasty, thanks.

      The bot can't delete pages anymore, I removed its admin rights when I stepped down. In an act of incredible shortsightedness, I also removed its bot rights, so I'll need a 'crat to message staff & ask for them to be returned.

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    • On a separate note, we have 329 pages in the Reddit pastas category, and searching "Reddit" on the wiki returns over 400 results. If a normie user like myself comes across one, what should we do? Slap on a marked for deletion template?

      Edit: Alternatively, should we seek out the original author to obtain their permission to post it as CC-BY-SA?

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    • AlixeTiir wrote: On a separate note, we have 329 pages in the Reddit pastas category, and searching "Reddit" on the wiki returns over 400 results. If a normie user like myself comes across one, what should we do? Slap on a marked for deletion template?

      Edit: Alternatively, should we seek out the original author to obtain their permission to post it as CC-BY-SA?

      If you come across a pasta from Reddit that is not marked as a Reddit pasta, we would appreciate it greatly if you let an admin know, to see what action needs to be taken.

      Thanks!

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    • Thanks for the heads up.

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    • Two questions.

      1.) So do we as authors have to go in and manually adjust the licenses for our own stories lest risking deletion? I wasn't very clear about that.

      2.) Also are we allowed to have our own stories posted on both Reddit and the Wikia? Because I was planning on adding my current story to NoSleep as well as posting it here.

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    • My guess would be:

      1) Not for most of them. Anything that was posted specifically to this wiki should already have the appropriate lisence. If there is a story that you posted here from elsewhere, you may want to check on that.

      2)Probably, you just need to make sure that they both fall under CC-BY-SA, or at the very least the copy posted here.

      Again, these are just my guesses, but I think that's how it works.

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    • Banned In CP wrote: Two questions.

      1.) So do we as authors have to go in and manually adjust the licenses for our own stories lest risking deletion? I wasn't very clear about that.

      2.) Also are we allowed to have our own stories posted on both Reddit and the Wikia? Because I was planning on adding my current story to NoSleep as well as posting it here.

      1) Yes, you would have to change the license to your stories as CC-BY-SA. What I am not sure of is if this is final-final. Maybe Wikia will allow us eventually to use other creative commons licenses, but I highly doubt that. In any case, when the decision is final, we will let everybody know in a clear manner what they need to do. For now, if you don't mind if your stories are under CC-BY-SA, I suggest you change the license of your stories to CC-BY-SA as a preemptive measure.

      2) Yes, you can post your stories on both Reddit and here, regardless of the license here. It is your work, so you can post it wherever you want. Be careful though, since some websites impose a license on your story (like Wikia unfortunately does). So, if a website wants your license to be X, where X is not CC-BY-SA (or, if allowed, other CC licenses, but again I doubt this will be the case), you cannot post it there. Otherwise you are good to post it anywhere you want, and Reddit is fine.

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    • I've finished the code, and it's ready to run on the wiki, I just need bot rights on the That One Machine account. According to Help:Bots, staff will give bot rights if the community demonstrate a consensus that the bot should be created, or if a b'crat requests them. Ideally I'd like to go for the latter option, since it should be a lot quicker.

      At this stage, the bot will message any users who have placed the {{By-user}} or {{By}} (with user=yes) templates on their story, with the license set to something other than "cc-by-sa". It would be good to get this done ASAP so users get as much notice as possible before deletions. Around the start of September, I'll run it again, this time deleting any of these pages which still have an incompatible license, as well as other pages which have not been written by our users (e.g: Reddit Pastas) depending on what the community feel should be done by the bot.

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    • Wait a minute...Penpal is a Reddit pasta! You're not getting rid of it, are you?!!

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    • ClericofMadness
      ClericofMadness removed this reply because:
      Off topic
      03:46, August 19, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • I really hope you're jokin' man. XD

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    • TheWizardOfTheWoods wrote:
      I really hope you're jokin' man. XD
      I agree.
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    • Timbolimbo.com wrote:

      TheWizardOfTheWoods wrote:
      I really hope you're jokin' man. XD

      I agree.

      Yeah; if the Wikia system dies, this wiki will also die.

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    • Timbolimbo.com wrote:
      Wait a minute...Penpal is a Reddit pasta! You're not getting rid of it, are you?!!

      Considering how great that story is, we should consider contacting the original author and asking if he/she will release under CC-BY-SA

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    • The original author is a Redditor who goes by 1000Vultures.

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    • AlixeTiir wrote:
      Timbolimbo.com wrote:
      Wait a minute...Penpal is a Reddit pasta! You're not getting rid of it, are you?!!
      Considering how great that story is, we should consider contacting the original author and asking if he/she will release under CC-BY-SA

      Well that is a major relief. I sure hope that he/she will agree.

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    • Most of my pastas are incompatible. What do I do to fix this?

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    • You could either make your stories CC-By-SA or post them somewhere else and link them on your userpage or somewhere. There are website creation tools.

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    • Gomez Capulet wrote: Most of my pastas are incompatible. What do I do to fix this?

      Hello, you can choose to re-license your pastas under CC BY-SA. I believe my bot has left a message on your talk page explaining how to do this (see this section). If you need a hand, I'm happy to help, just send a message on my talk page.

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    • Incompatible in what way? In that they currently aren't under the new lisence, or in the way that you do not want to/cannot have them under the new lisence?

      If the former, you will need to go to your stories and change them over to the new one.

      If the latter, they may not be permitted to remain due to lisencing conflicts, but I'm not certain.

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    • TheWizardOfTheWoods wrote: Incompatible in what way? In that they currently aren't under the new lisence, or in the way that you do not want to/cannot have them under the new lisence?

      If the former, you will need to go to your stories and change them over to the new one.

      If the latter, they may not be permitted to remain due to lisencing conflicts, but I'm not certain.

      Arr, lad, I be needin ya to check the second chapter of me story.

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    • Okay I see what needs to be done but I'm just terrible at tech. I'll keep trying to fix it but if someone would do this for me that'd be appreciated so much.

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    • Gomez Capulet wrote: Okay I see what needs to be done but I'm just terrible at tech. I'll keep trying to fix it but if someone would do this for me that'd be appreciated so much.

      Hiya, I've updated the licensing on your pastas. Let me know if you need anything else :)

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    • Thank you so much. 

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    • @Underscorre can you update the licensing on my pastas too?

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    • DoctorBleed wrote: @Underscorre can you update the licensing on my pastas too?

      They should all be updated now :)

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    • ClericofMadness
      ClericofMadness removed this reply because:
      Off topic
      02:19, August 31, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • ClericofMadness
      ClericofMadness removed this reply because:
      Off topic
      02:19, August 31, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • ClericofMadness
      ClericofMadness removed this reply because:
      Off topic
      02:20, August 31, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • ClericofMadness
      ClericofMadness removed this reply because:
      Off topic
      02:20, August 31, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • ClericofMadness
      ClericofMadness removed this reply because:
      Off topic
      02:20, August 31, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • Well it looks like this thread has been closed down.

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    • Guess so.

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    • Then why did you comment?

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    • I dunno, lol.

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    • Steven"SpringBubba"Savoy wrote: I dunno, lol.

      Please refrain from continually making off topic replies to forums posts.

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    • ClericofMadness wrote:

      Steven"SpringBubba"Savoy wrote: I dunno, lol.

      Please refrain from continually making off topic replies to forums posts.

      Yes sir, I'm sorry sir.

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    • Hey guys, just keeping you updated, the bot will likely be removing pastas specifically tagged with an incompatible license tomorrow. If you're having any issues changing your licenses, now is a good time to let me know.

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    • I'm pretty sure I've gotten mine fixed, but I would like to make sure because all my stories are only saved here now. Had my computer die on me and everything was erased when I fixed it. So, if someone could insure that I'm not going to lose everything that would be very helpful.

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    • Heya Johnathan, I believe Kolpik has already messaged you about this, but your pastas all look good :) If you want the attribution re-added, but without the incompatible license, let me know and I can have the bot credit you on all the pastas.

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    • Just keeping you all in the loop, the bot has completed a round of deletions, there's a log of its actions available here - User:That One Machine/Log Messages 2.

      This batch has just targeted pastas unambiguously tagged with a specific license other than CC BY-SA (i.e: those using the {{By}} or {{By-user}} template with license=cc-by-nc, license=cc-by-nd, or license=cc-by-nc-sa). We've still got to work out how we're going to deal with Category:Reddit Pastas. Thanks again to everyone for being so understanding.

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    • ClericofMadness
      ClericofMadness removed this reply because:
      user was banned for this post
      17:43, October 1, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • Is the Russian Seep Experiment under CC BY SA liscense? If it's not, can we change it to be? 

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    • A FANDOM user
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